[Strategie] LoL, Last Hitting und Kontrolle des Minionflows in der Lane

Forum Forum LoL [Strategie] LoL, Last Hitting und Kontrolle des Minionflows in der Lane

Dieses Thema enthält 5 Antworten und 2 Teilnehmer. Es wurde zuletzt aktualisiert von Profilbild von Stefan Stefan vor 6 Jahre, 8 Monate.

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  • #554
    Profilbild von Stefan
    Stefan
    Moderator

    Weil es so brontal wichtig ist, schreib ich einfach mal ein paar Sätze dazu, grade auch um Olli einen besseren Einstieg zu geben, aber auch weil ich immer wieder Autoattacks in Creepwaves sehe, zu einem Zeitpunkt an dem es denkbar ungünstig ist.

    1. Lasthitting

    Unter Lasthitting fasst man zwei Dinge zusammen.
    a) Den letzten Schlag auf einen Creep machen, damit man das Geld für den Kill bekommt.
    b) Nur und ausschließlich den letzten Schlag zu machen und sonst keine Autoattacks.

    Warum man a) machen sollte erklärt sich von selbst. mehr Minionkills = mehr Geld = bessere Ausrüstung = mehr Championkills ~= Sieg.
    b) erschließt sich nicht zwangsläufig, da man ja letztlich den Turm vom Gegner umhauen will. In der Regel klappt das aber eh erst so ab lvl 6-8 das erste Mal, und bis dahin will man eigentlich nur Kohle Kohle Kohle.

    2.) Der Minionflow in Kombination mit Lasthitting
    Die Creepwaves sind gleichstark und wenn man nicht eingreift verbleiben die auch mehr oder weniger lange in der Mitte. Durch Angriffe der Champs wird hier ein Ungleichgewicht geschaffen, das die Minions in die eine oder andere Richtung des Turmes bringt.

    Szenario 1:
    Wir pushen in der frühen Lanephase durch Autoattacks und den massiven Einsatz von AoE Spells gegen die Creeps. Resultat ist, dass die Gegner an den eigenen Turm gepresst werden, dort aber in relativer Sicherheit stehen, da wie oben schon erwähnt vor lvl 6-8 einfach nicht die Firepower da ist um entweder den Turm zu killen, oder wenigstens durch einen Towerdive einen Kill abzustauben ohne selbst zu sterben. Wenn der Gegner selbst über AoE verfügt sind zumal die eigenen Creeps schneller weg als man schauen kann.
    Das gefährlichste an der Situation ist aber, dass man sich massiv der Gankgefahr aussetzt. In solchen Situationen kommt häufig der Jungler oder die Mitte kurz vorbei und ein Stun + Turmfeuer + 3 vs. 2 sind hier zu 100% ein Kill und zu 80% ein Doublekill gegen die Pusher. Gerade in den äusseren Lanes ist der Weg zurück zum eigenen Turm und damit in Sicherheit einfach zu weit, um das zu riskieren.
    In der Mitte gilt das natürlich auch, wenngleich in abgeschwächterer Form, aufgrund der kürzeren Laufwege zum Turm.

    Szenario 2:
    Wir nutzen nur lasthitting und werden so an unseren eigenen Turm gedrängt. Hier setzt sich der Gegner den gleichen Gefahren aus, wie in Szenario 1, so dass das Szenario hier für uns von Vorteil ist. Die einzige Schwierigkeit die hier für uns dazu kommt ist das erschwerte Lasthitten durch das Feuer von unserem Turm. Wenn man allerdings weiß wieviele Schüsse die Mobs aushalten kann man das auch ganz einfach ausnutzen.

    3. Lasthitting am Turm
    Es gibt 3 Arten von Minions:
    Melee: Stirbt nach 3 Schüssen vom Turm, ist nach dem zweiten Schuß extrem low. Daher Turm – Turm – Hit.
    Caster: Stirbt nach 2 Schüssen vom Turm, daher Hit – Turm – Hit.
    Kanone: Keine Ahnung, einfach drauf, wenn er low ist 🙂

    4. NICHT Sterben und keine Trades 1 vs. 1 machen
    Nicht sterben ist klar, denk ich mal. Gibt dem Gegner nur Geld und was das schlimmere dabei ist, man verliert eine Menge XP und Gold in der Zeit in der man tot ist und zurückkommen muss.
    Häh? Auch keine 1 vs 1 Trades? Nein! Aus zwei Gründen:
    a) Ich gehe davon aus, dass ihr durch genug Übung inzwischen besser im lasthitten seid als der Gegner rund den auch genügend harrased, so dass er nicht so viel lasthitten kann, wie ihr.
    Das hat den Effekt, dass ihr sowieso einen Vorteil Geld und XP technisch gegen den Gegner habt, der sich verstärkt je länger ihr gegen ihn in der Lane seid.
    b) Die Geldverteilung bei Assists. Am häufigsten sehe ich einen von uns sterben, wenn er einem fast Toten hinter den Turm folgt, ihn killt und danach vom Partner und dem Turm gekillt wird. Ok, Killtausch, macht nix. Falsch. LoL gibt dem Assist nämlich zusätzlich zum Killgeld nochmal 70% obendrauf, das unter allen Assistierenden gleichmässig verteilt wird. So bringt ein Firstblood dann statt 400 für einen einzelnen auf einmal 680 in Summe, wenn ein zweiter mit draufhaut. Und das macht den 1v1 Trade am Turm so krass unprofitabel. Also lieber den Gegner in die Base porten lassen und in der Lane einen Gold und XP Vorteil erarbeiten, statt durch den vermeintlichen Killtausch den Gegner zu feeden.

    Takeaways:
    Lasthitten üben. Neben nicht sterben und Mapawareness ist das DER wichtigste Skill überhaupt. Einfach mal nen Trainingsspiel aufmachen ohne Bots, in die Mitte stellen und versuchen jeden Minion in der Wave zu lasthitten. Wenn ihr das gut könnt laned es sich viel angenehmer und ihr werdet den Geldvorteil definitiv spüren. Mit TAB könnt ihr auch jederzeit schauen, wieviele Mobs der Gegner jeweils hat, um abzuschätzen wie gut er ist.

    #2944
    Profilbild von Ultra
    Ultra
    Moderator

    Die oben aufgestellten Taktiken berücksichten meiner Ansicht nach aber nicht alle Effekte eines Erfolgreichen Towerpushes.

    1) Wenn nur noch meine Minions leben kommt bei den unausweichlichen Scharmützeln in der Mitte viel Extraschaden auf den Angreifer, da die Minions immer einschreiten wenn PvP läuft. Die ist vor allem in den niederen Stufen nicht unerheblich.

    2) In manchen Kombinationen ist es möglich den Gegner so am eigenen Turm festzunageln, daß er quasi nur noch meine Nahkampfminions lasthitten kann und unter schweres Feuer gerät sobald er die Caster Minions angeht. Auf diese Weise verliert der Gegner entweder soviel Leben, daß er zurückporten muß und so Gold und EXP verliert, oder aber 50% der Minions schießt der Turm ab = 50% weniger Gold.

    3) Welcher Depp macht Towerdive wenn noch 2 Gegner leben? Einen killt man auf der Lane und den 2. towerdived man dann. Also nur Gold für einen selbst, auch wenn man stirbt und nix Assist-Gold.

    4) Daß es riskanter ist den Gegner gegen seinen Turm zu pushen ist der einzige Punkt, welchem ich vorbehaltlos zustimmen kann.

    #2945
    Profilbild von Stefan
    Stefan
    Moderator

    Ultra said:

    1) Wenn nur noch meine Minions leben kommt bei den unausweichlichen Scharmützeln in der Mitte viel Extraschaden auf den Angreifer, da die Minions immer einschreiten wenn PvP läuft. Die ist vor allem in den niederen Stufen nicht unerheblich.

    Wenn nur noch deine Minions leben kommt es zu keinen Scharmützeln mehr in der Mitte, sondern an deren Turm. Davon abgesehen dass jeder halbwegs intelligente Gegner den Busch nutzt um die Aggro loszuwerden.

    2) In manchen Kombinationen ist es möglich den Gegner so am eigenen Turm festzunageln, daß er quasi nur noch meine Nahkampfminions lasthitten kann und unter schweres Feuer gerät sobald er die Caster Minions angeht. Auf diese Weise verliert der Gegner entweder soviel Leben, daß er zurückporten muß und so Gold und EXP verliert, oder aber 50% der Minions schießt der Turm ab = 50% weniger Gold.

    Warum sollte er die Fernkämpfer nicht auch lasthitten können? Das setzt schonmal voraus, dass es 2 Melees sind, die keine Möglichkeit haben die Mobs im Fernkampf umzuhauen, und selbst dann bekommst du instant nen Turmschuss ab, wenn Du in Reichweite bist um mich zu hauen. Wenns ganz dumm läuft bekommste dann direkt nen Stun oder Exhaust, noch 1-2 Hits und bist dann Asche.

    3) Welcher Depp macht Towerdive wenn noch 2 Gegner leben? Einen killt man auf der Lane und den 2. towerdived man dann. Also nur Gold für einen selbst, auch wenn man stirbt und nix Assist-Gold.

    Ich erinnern dich nächstes mal dran…


    #2954
    Profilbild von Stefan
    Stefan
    Moderator

    hier noch mehr zu dem Thema und Laning allgemein:

    und in schön formatiert: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=149979

    Contents
    1. Guide Intro
    2. Rules of Lane Control
    3. Goals of the Early Game
    4. The Gap
    5. Last Hitting
    6. Ideal Creep Lines
    7. „Farming“
    8. Special Cases
    9. Denying
    10. Pursuing Favorable Matchups
    11. Dying
    12. KNOW YOUR ROLE
    13. Map Awareness
    14. A Few Useful Advanced Manuevers (Tricks)
    15. End of the Early Game
    16. Credits/Shameless Plug

    1. Guide Intro
    One area I have noticed that many players can improve in is their early game play and their lane control. I have noticed that excellent players, who otherwise have a great understanding of overall game strategy and flawless execution, often do not seem to understand that games can be won faster and/or easier if you focus on developing an early game advantage. In fact, between equal teams who don’t make mistakes, I would argue that the game is won in the early game. While I am not the best player overall, I almost always dominate early game, and I am here to teach you how to do the same with a few basic rules. Note that this is a simplified version of what you need to know. You can, and should, expand upon these techniques. Also note that this is written primarily for 5v5 play on Summoners Rift and much of it is not applicable to 3v3 matches on TT.

    2. Rules of Lane Control
    1. Always last hit, never auto-attack.
    2. Mind the Gap.
    3. Pursue favorable matchups.
    4. Deny till you die.
    5. Don’t Die.
    6. Know your role.

    3. Goals of the Early Game
    Before I start detailing the rules and providing tips for execution, we need to put them in context. If you want to be competetive at high levels in a game like LoL, you need to constantly be pursuing an advantage over the enemy team or minimizing their advantage over you. You need to constantly be asking yourself „What am I trying to achieve right now, and why?“. This question is easy to answer when you are chasing down a kill, but the answer is often somewhat more vague in the early game. So let me clarify it for you:

    In the early, your goal is to secure, as a team, a gold and experience advantage over the enemy team. You want to focus the gold on the heroes that need it most to do their job (typically carries).

    This is an incredibly simple goal and many of you may rightfully comment that you are learning nothing new. However, knowing your goal and actively, persistently, tenaciously pursuing it are two very different things.

    4. The Gap
    The most important and the most difficult thing to do early game is to control the creep lines in your lane. The biggest threat to you early game, assuming you know how to play against your lane enemy, is death by gank. Getting ganked in the early game severely nerfs your gold and XP and buffs your opponent. Ganks usually occur when a more powerful enemy (or greater number of enemies) shows up behind you, cutting off your route of escape, and kills you. The closer you are to the enemy tower, the more space you leave for them to sneak up behind you and the further you have to run to safety. You want to be close to your own tower, where you are close to safety and will likely see anyone coming up on you. Since you want to continue earning gold and getting experience you also always want to be close (enough) to the creeps battling it out in your lane. Therefore, since you want to be close to both (1) the creeps, and (2) your tower, it is prudent to keep the creeps and the tower as close together as possible. This is what I mean by „controlling the creep lines“.

    I will, from now on, refer to the space between your champion and your tower as your „Gap“. Keeping the creeps close to your tower makes your gap small and your opponent’s gap large, thus opening them to ganks by your own teammates while keeping you safe.

    5. Last Hitting
    Last hitting is the practice of timing your attacks on enemy creeps to ensure that you land the killing blow, thus earning the gold for the kill. Ideally you want kill all 6 creeps in a typical wave and you want to do that by attacking 6 times only. You may ask, „But Beej, why not just auto attack?“. I would respond, „ROFL, Nub.“ Then I would explain that when you auto-attack, you do two very negative things:

    (1) You reduce your chance to score the killing blow on the creeps you are attacking and you make landing that killing blow, and thus your gold income, a matter of luck (nub fuel).

    (2) You push your lane. Assuming your opponent is not dealing more damage to the creeps than you, auto-attacking always pushes the lane quickly, widening your gap, making you more vulnerable to ganks, and ultimately nerfing you because of the ganks or the steps you take to mitigate the risk of being ganked (e.g. backing when you could be last hitting, or buying wards to notify you of incomming ganks).

    Last Hitting Can Push
    It should be noted that last hitting does mildly push your lane. If you last hit and your opponents just stand there, that minimal damage you are adding to your creep’s efforts will eventually begin to push the lane, even if you can flawlessly get all the kills while doing the least amount of damage possible. Think of it this way (which is simplified): Your creep waves form a single entity with a set damage output and health. Your opponents creep waves form an identical entity. These forces battle it out and typically the battle results in a draw. When one or both sides survive long enough for another friendly entity to arrive, these entities are combined, impacting the next battle. If you add any damage whatsoever to your creep entity’s damage output, you swing the battle in your creep’s favor. Thus, your creeps survive to add their value to the next wave, creating an advantage for the next wave which leaves more of your creep’s leftover after that wave. This effect snowballs, with more and more of your creeps surving each battle, pushing faster and faster. Such a push is typically only stopped by an enemy tower or enemy hero.

    6. Ideal Creep Lines
    What I have told you so far is not the whole truth. You do not want your creeps to be as close to your tower as possible, you actually want the enemy creeps to be standing just outside your tower’s range. There are many benefits to this including the following:

    (1) Your tower will automatically focus anyone trying to tower dive you even before they deal damage,
    (2) You will not have to compete with your tower for kills,
    (3) Enemy melee champions may catch a tower round when they approach to last hit a creep, and
    (4) This positions your enemies in an optimal location for your team to gank them from the river.

    Having all your creeps within your tower’s range and all enemy creeps just outside is therefore optimal for safety and gold/exp gain.

    If your opponents insist on autoattacking or AOEing creeps, it may be necessary to respond similarly to maintain your ideal creep line, and to keep them from constantly driving their creeps into your tower. Still, it is prudent to pay careful attention and ensure you get all the last hits.

    7. „Farming“
    Many players seem to believe that „Farming“ early game means getting all the creep kills as fast as possible. Sometimes these players pick champions like Singed and poison all the creeps ASAP, every wave. Other times they pick Nasus, take the AOE DOT, and use it on every creep wave. If you are one of these players, please comment and explain to me WTF you are thinking.

    Why you are a Nub
    First off, if you have a squishy lane partner, you are screwing them over by making them vulnerable to ganks or by forcing them to back to avoid ganks and therefore not get EXP. Secondly, the creeps don’t spawn any faster if you kill them faster. In fact, and this may come as a shock, you get the exact same amount of EXP and gold if you last hit every creep with your regular attack as you do when you AOE them all with spells. Also, if you are weakening all the creeps at once, you are significantly less likely to be able to score the last hit on all those creeps because they are all low at once and you are competing with your own creeps. Yes, AOEing creeps may get you a large CS if you have no lane partner, but it also allows your opponent to tower hug and farm in peace, safe from ganks by your team, and immune to any Denial you may otherwise be able to lay down. In summary, AOEing creeps is a lazy, less effective way to farm and it should be avoided except in special cases:

    8. Special Cases
    (1) If it is too dangerous to venture too far up your lane and you are getting denied, it is sometimes acceptable to quickly run in, aoe creeps for kills, and retreat. This ensures you continue to gain EXP and gold while minimizing the time you are vulnerable. For example, if you are playing Anivia in a 1v2 lane against strong opponents, it is probably prudent to hang back and just occaisionally run in to flash frost creeps when they get low. This way you can get some kills without getting killed and you don’t push your lane too hard, especially if your opponents are continually last hitting or nub-auto-attacking/AOEing creeps instead of just denying you.

    (2) If you can safely aoe down an entire wave of creeps extremely quickly (e.g. you are Sivir or Corki), it can be prudent to do so then run to a nearby jungle camp and kill that in between waves. Phreak demonstrates this tactic nicely in his Sivir Champion Spotlight.

    9. Denying
    „Denying“ is the practice of preventing your opponent access to the creeps to last hit and, ideally, keeping them out of EXP range of the creeps. There are several stages/forms of denial, each with different risks to your own champions. I will order them from lowest to highest risk.

    (1) Melee Denial:
    If you are ranged, or simply a stronger melee character, and you attack enemy melee champions every time they approach creeps to try and last hit, they will be forced to back off to avoid death. If they stop coming in, they don’t get any last hits, they get a ****ty CS, you get a better CS, therefore you earn an advantage in gold. Such harrassment is very low risk assuming they can’t out harrass you. (For example, if you try to shoot Pantheon everytime he approaches a creep and you catch more damage from his spear than he does from your attack, he can out-harrass you).

    (2) Full Harrassment:
    If you can do more ranged damage with spells and attacks than your opponent, or, if being close to you opens an opponent to dangerous comboes (such as Pantheon’s Aegis/Heartstriker combo), your superior „lane presence“ can be used to scare even ranged enemies out of last hit range. To do this, you typically have to be in the middle of the creep battle, which naturally increases your risk of being ganked due to your wider Gap.

    (3) Total Denial:
    This is the best form of harrassment in which you stand on the enemy side of the creep battle, between the enemy creeps and your opponents. You stay in range of the creeps and continue to last hit, but you also heavily harrass your opponents to keep them out of EXP range from the creeps. You can severely nerf your opponent in this way. It is not uncommon in a good 2v1 lane for the 2 to outlevel the 1 due to total denial. To achieve this, you need a significantly stronger lane (champion/champion combo) than your opponent. Also, while this total denial can often be maintained for a few minutes, it cannot be maintained indefinitely. Since you are continuing to last hit, you will push the lane, and eventually you will run into their tower. Furthermore, positioning yourself for Total Denial makes you extremely vulnerable to ganks which will almost certainly be called for by a half decent opponent.

    Remember: All denial that does not result in your death is worth it and should be pursued, a large CS differential is a huge advantage. All forms of denial are easier with an ideal creep line.

    10. Pursuing favorable matchups
    If you are getting totally denied or are still unsafe while tower hugging, your team needs to make an immediate adjustment in your lane configuration. If you know that you could totally deny another lane if you were to switch with a teammate, that adjustment should be pursued as well. If you need to, call for a lane swap, if you are playing with good players or friends, you should get one quickly. When you are developing a team strategy, you should seriously consider the early game lanes. The best champions late game often get dominated in the early game and your team should be built to compensate for this fact.

    A note on „Imbalance“:
    Though I find the game to be fairly well balanced overall, some champions or comboes are simply better than others early game (I will give some examples in the champion commentary section). Accept that this is part of the game and either play those characters, or learn to play to the strengths of the ones you like. Don’t be a scrub and make excuses.

    11. Dying
    As discussed, Dying is, in general, a bad decision. However, sometimes death can be traded for a greater advantage. For example, if you tower dive for a double kill and die to the tower, it was probably worth it (assuming no more than one opponent got an assist), especially if you are not the carry or your teammates get assist income from your kills. I am especially fond of the early game 2 for 1 where your support character dies and your carry lives to continue farming, unthreatened, while everyone is dead. If you trade 1 for 1 but your kill is First Blood, it was worth it. A calculation needs to be made before you commit to a battle to determine whether or not your death is worth it. Death is an even trickier card to play with if you are uncertain of success. Many players seem to err-conservative and praise themselves for having the fewest deaths. To this, I say: Inaction is as certain a way to lose as feeding against a good opponent and sometimes you have to make a sacrifice FTW.

    [The consequences of death change significantly as the game progresses, this discussion is only applicable to the laning/early game phase]

    12. KNOW YOUR ROLE
    Seriously, know your role and what you actually need item-wise to accomplish it. Carries and damage dealers are typically more item dependent than support characters. Therefore, to give your team the greatest chance of success, you should ensure your carry is getting the last hits. This means that if you are Soraka, you shouldn’t be stealing creep kills from Ashe. If Ashe is clearly not going to score the kill (e.g. she is out of range), take it, otherwise let her have it. Its definitely better for your team if Ashe gets an early BF Sword than it is for Soraka to get an early catalyst. It doesn’t really matter how long you can keep your team alive if they deal no damage. Support characters should focus on harrassment, denial and keeping their carry safe.

    13. Map Awareness (comming soon)

    14. A Few Useful Advanced Manuevers (Tricks)
    – Hard Push to Reset the Wave –
    As discussed above, if you are successfully denying your opponents while last hitting, you will be gradually pushing your lane. When you creeps begin to build up and this push snowballs forward, you will run out of space. Your opponent will be able to tower hug or, worse, maintain an ideal creep line, becoming nearly immune to your previous harrassment. To correct this you want to begin killing the enemy creeps as fast as possible to drive your creeps into the enemy tower where they will be killed quickly. Once your build up of creeps is completely slaughtered, in between the waves if you time the hard push correctly, the enemy creeps will again meet yours in the middle of the lane, just like the first wave, giving you back the space you need to deny.

    Sometimes it is possible to actually reverse the push in your favor (i.e. they have more creeps in lane pushing towards your tower) if you can get a fresh wave of your creeps to arrive at the enemy tower when the last of your hard-push creeps dies. With only last hitting, such a snowballing counter-push by the enemy creeps allows you to enact long lasting total-denial.

    – Lane Rotations –
    Over the course of the early game, many players seem to become accustomed to dealing with their lane opponent. They become overly conservative if they get ganked. They become overly aggressive against a weaker opponent. If all your lanes are strong and your players are flexible, it can be highly effective to take advantage of these habits your opponents have developed. Put a solo carry against a gank-fearing conservative so the carry can easily farm. Put deceptively strong champions against the habitually aggressive so you can score kills. Put two champs middle where previously there was one. Anything you can do to mess up the other team’s „flow“ (f-up their Chi) will benefit you. Obviously you will want to execute rotations at convenient times (e.g. swap two champions from different lanes who had to visit the fountain at the same time). I have observed that many good teams do this naturally without much discussion.

    – Creep Baiting –
    If you attack an enemy champion while standing near enemy creeps, the creeps will attack you. Repeated applications of this knowledge can be used to pull enemy creeps towards your tower. Note that, since these creeps are attacking you and not your creeps, your creeps will likely win the wave and push the lane. Therefore, baiting creeps really only has a lasting effect when the enemy creeps already have an advantage. I recommend trying it if you reach a situation where you really want to be closer to your tower (either for safety or to deny) and your opponent cannot out-harrass you.

    15. End of the Early Game
    The strategies and tactics discussed above are only applicable to the early game. The early game ends usually ends when 3 or more players on a single team leave their lane to begin regularly ganking or team pushing, disrupting the other team’s ability to remain in lane farming. The game time and Champion level at which this occurs varies greatly based on team compositions. Sometimes you can remain in your lane to continue farming after this point, but, depending on your character, its usually best to go help your team. Consult other guides to understand the mid-game. If you followed mine, you should have the advantage upon entering it.

    16. Credits and Shameless Plug
    Special thanks to Kr4ng, friend and frequent teammate, whose words I have used more than once in this Guide.

    Kr4ng and I are currently looking for teammates for Season 1. If you need two more to make a 5-man team or are individually looking for a 3-man team, and think you could play with us, reply or message me in game. We are just looking for competent, intelligent, versatile teammates who can contribute to our late game strategy (which I honestly am not as strong in) and are fun to play with.

    #2955
    Profilbild von Ultra
    Ultra
    Moderator

    1. Last-hitting is for sissies.
    2. Real man may die, but they never read guides.
    3. Fear is for the enemy, fear and death!

    #2956
    Profilbild von Stefan
    Stefan
    Moderator

    Ultra said:

    1. Last-hitting wins games.
    2. Stupid men may die, but they never read guides.
    3. Fear is for the enemy, fear and death!


    Fixed it for you.

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