Antwort auf: Hausregeln

Forum Forum Pathfinder 2nd Edition Hausregeln Antwort auf: Hausregeln

#17651

Ultra
Moderator

Ok, jetzt brauchen wir nur noch eine vernüftige Einigung für den Themenblock „Stealth“.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42pv6?Ambushes-stealth-and-initiative

Ein Post ziemlich am Ende macht für mich eine Menge Sinn, aber ich empfehle trotzdem mal den ganzen Thread durchzulesen und danach zu entscheiden wie wir es machen wollen, damit zumindest größtenteils mal Klarheit herrscht:

I’ve thought about this, and here’s some scenarios with how I would see them. My main point will focus on the intent of Stealthing parties. If they intend just to sneak past (which might trigger an encounter depending on the Stealth result), that’s different from the intent to attack (which will trigger an encounter regardless of the Stealth result).

1 – PC trying to avoid guard

A lone rogue is trying to sneak past some guards, while his fellows are hiding behind some buildings. We’re in Exploration Mode, and the situation might call for encounter mode. The Rogue uses Avoid Notice (p. 479) which calls for a (secret) Stealth check:
=> If he rolls below the guard’s Perception DC, he’s spotted. This is either Hidden or Observed, depending on Failure/Critical Failure. We’re in encounter mode and all of the others (guard and other PC’s) roll initiative. The rogue uses his Stealth check as initiative. Everyone realizes the jig is up, and can act in Initiative order.
=> If the rogue succeeds at Stealth vs. the guard’s Perception DC, he’s still unnoticed. The rogue sneaks past the guards, and they never knew he was there. We are still in exploration mode.

2 – PC trying to attack guard from stealth

Same scenario as above, except the rogue’s player indicates that he wants to attack the guards from stealh. We’re still in Exploration mode, but it’s clear that an encounter is going to happen. That means the rogue rolls stealth, everyone else rolls Perception.
=> Rogue goes first and clears the guard’s Perception DC: He’s undetected and can act first, attacking with all the benefits that gives.
=> Rogue goes first, but doesn’t clear the guard’s Perception DC: The rogue is Hidden/Observed, and realizes the jig is up. He can still strike first.
=> Guard goes first, Stealth doesn’t succeed. The guard realizes something is up, and is the first to react. He might Seek, Raise Shield, etc.
=> Guard goes first, Stealth succeeds. (I’ve bolded this one, because it’s the iffy bit.) The guard doesn’t realize something is about to happen, so he doesn’t act on his initiative. In essence, he delays until he realizes an encounter is happening.
=> Stealth succeeds, but other PC goes first. (Also interesting.) The cleric hiding behind the corner gets a very high initiative. It would seem sensible that the player delays until the rogue has made his move (or the guards call out that they spotted someone). I agree that Readied actions should not be allowed. After all, the characters would not know they’re in encounter mode yet. The benefit of a high initiative is to be the first to react once the encounter is started in earnest.

Scenario 1 reversed, ninja in Stealth to scout PC’s

The PC’s are exploring a building. Somewhere there’s a ninja in hiding, trying to learn about the PC’s. She won’t attack unless spotted. There might be an encounter, or not.
=> The PC’s walk close without Searching. The ninja is never detected. Everyone stays in Exploration mode.
=> The PC’s walk close while searching. The GM makes a secret Perception check for the PC’s. If this clears the ninja’s Stealth DC, they spot her. Either they can attack (prompting initiative from everyone) or do something else. If the Perception check doesn’t clear the ninja’s Stealth, see above. The ninja is never detected, and exploration mode continues.

Scenario 2 reversed, ninja in Stealth waiting to strike

The PC’s are exploring a building. Somewhere there’s a ninja in hiding, waiting for the opportune moment to strike. Once the PC’s come close enough, there will definitely be an encounter. The Ninja rolls Stealth, everyone else rolls Perception.

=> Ninja goes first and clears the PC’s Perception DC: She’s undetected and can act first, attacking with all the benefits that gives.
=> Ninja goes first, but doesn’t clear the PC’s Perception DC: The ninja is Hidden/Observed, and realizes the jig is up. She can still strike first.
=> PC’s go first, Stealth doesn’t succeed. The PC’s realizes something is up, and are the first to react. They might Seek, Raise Shield, etc.
=> Some of the PC’s go first, but Stealth succeeds. (I’ve bolded this one again, because it’s the iffy bit.) The PC’s don’t realize something is about to happen. If you favor symmetry between PC’s and NPC’s, all of them delay until after the ninja has acted. If you see the PC’s as the center of the story (they have Hero Points after all, another thing which sets them apart from NPC’s), they might get an idea that ’something is wrong‘. Give them three actions before the ninja attack.

Scenario 3 – Both sides stealthing

A few kobolds are in ambush, waiting for the PC’s. The PC’s have been ambushed before, and send out their rogue alone in hiding. The kobolds will attack anyone they see. The rogue is only interesting in scouting. We’re in exploration mode. The rogue is using Avoid Notice, and we might have an encounter. As soon as they are at range where they might detect each other, both sides make a secret Stealth check vs. the other side’s Perception DC.
=> Kobolds succeed in Stealth, rogue doesn’t. The kobolds spot the rogue. Depending on their Stealth/Initiative roll, they go first. (If the rogue goes first, the GM has a choice. Either he gets a ’spidersense‘ warning him of danger and allowing three actions, or the GM puts him in delay until after the kobolds act.
=> Rogue succeeds in Stealth, kobolds don’t. The rogue finds out where the kobolds are, without being noticed. He stated the intention just to scout, so no encounter happens.
=> Neither side succeeds at Stealth. Both sides see each other. Encounter mode, order decided by Stealth/Initiative.
=> Both sides succeed at Stealth. Neither side notices the others. The rogue can conclude (wrongly) that there’s no ambush and report back to the party, or he might press on. If he wants to go around actively searching for the kobolds, he could by using the Search exploration activity. However, in this case he’d be spotted by the kobolds (triggering an encounter), because he has to stop ‚Avoid Notice‘. Alternatively, he might continue using Avoid Notice while walking around, until a point where the GM calls for a new Stealth check on both sides (maybe with modifiers based on who is where, and how good their cover/concealment is. If the rogue happens to walk around the boulder where the kobolds are hiding, it’d be suitable to say their Stealth fails automatically)

It’s quite a bit of text, but I believe this should cover all of the scenarios I’ve thought of. For me personally, I don’t mind a bit of asymmetry between PC’s and NPC’s and I will give player’s with high initiave the chance to take their three actions if they roll high for initiative, even if they have no clue what’s about to happen.